Posted by
fufodog on Friday, August 14, 2009 1:48:07 AM
From: Steve (FUFODOG)
You lost the argument in the first sentence when you referred to Republicans as morally depraved. The first to resort to name-calling loses. If you actually believe that this supports your position then I feel sorry for you, Bill. I don't think any reasonable rebuttal will persuade you and I think you really need to explore the source of your hate. I, and I imagine many of your friends, do not appreciate e-mails calling me names. If that's to be the intellectual level of your debate, then please "unsubscribe" me from further ideological diatribes.
I guess dissent, which was considered patriotic when it was against Bush, is now manufactured, artificial and, according to Nancy Pelosi, "un-American" or, according to you, "morally depraved." It's OK for the current President to be a community organizer, but those who organize around issues he disagrees with are to be scorned and denigrated. Yeah, that's fair. By the way, Gallup, Rassmussen, PEW, and NBC/Wall St. Journal polls all show that Americans are opposed by 53% to the proposal in increasing numbers as the details are made available and discussed. By Nancy Pelosi's logic, the majority of Americans are now "un-American." Are they "morally depraved" too, or just stupid in your opinion?
So, to explain my opposition to the House bill:
Government is too big, too costly and too inefficient already. Government spending in 2009 is projected to be 45% of GDP http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html.. That's before the $1.6 trillion spending proposed by the House for health care. We are entering the realm of Socialism. Consider that government spending in France and Germany, who DO consider themselves Socialist countries, is around 48% to 49%. Government already has too much control over our lives and the trend is going in the wrong direction.
In 1965 Medicare was originally supposed to cost $9 billion by 1990. The actual cost? $66 billion. Medicare is bankrupt. According to AP and MSNBC (hardly Republican sympathizers) the "looming Medicare shortage is seven times the size of the one that Social Security faces and nearly four times the entire federal debt." The current proposed budget for the House bill to reform health care is $1.6 trillion. Neither the House, nor the President has told us how they are going to pay for this. Especially if Obama keeps his promise to not raise taxes on those who earn under $250. If the government taxed everyone who makes over $250 thousand at 100%, it would still not pay for health care, let alone TARP, cap and trade, the omnibus budget, stimulus 1 or potentially stimulus 2. Am I "morally depraved" for wanting government live within its means? Is this so unreasonable?
The U.S. spends $800 billion a year on Medicare and Medicaid, $60 billion of which is estimated to be lost to fraud. If Government can't run existing health care programs any better than th at, why should we trust them to expand health care through more Government programs?
Massachusetts and Tennessee have both i implemented public options for health care and both states are being bankrupted by the programs as they are substantially exceeding their budgeted costs.
The Fact/Fiction argument presented by Herb Kohl is somewhat misleading. He's correct in many of his assertions that the current version of the bill does NOT contain some of what he calls fiction. However, at least 31 new federal programs, agencies, commissions and mandates are created by this bill. Consequently, although the bill does not include many of the details that Americans are concerned with, these agencies and commissioners will have to implement the bill with all of those details that are yet to be determined. Determined BY THEM! That's why no one knows, not even Herb Kohl, what impact this bill will have on our health care system. Those specifics will be implemented outside the legislative process by design so that Herb Kohl will be able to deny complicity when it all goes wrong.
So, who will Obama appoint to these coveted commissions? Perhaps his czars and advisors provide an insight into that question.
Ezekiel Emanuel, one of Obama's advisors and brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel wrote in January of this year "when implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated... The complete lives system justifies preference to younger people because of priority to the worst-off rather than instrumental value." This sounds like rationing to me.
Cass Sunstein, Obama's Regulatory czar, is also advising the President on health care said in the Columbia Law Review in 2004 "I urge that the Government should indeed focus on life-years rather than lives. A program that saves young people produces more welfare than one that saves old people."
During Obama's prime-time town hall on health care, Jane Sturm told the President that it took three doctors to agree to implanting a pacemaker in her 100 year old mother’s chest. She is now 105. Would Obamacare have denied her life? Obama's response? "Well now that's a tough one ... that costs a lot and maybe we will have to say, just take the painkiller." Sounds like rationing to me.
Barbara Wagner, an Oregon resident who is covered through the state of Oregon's government health care plan, was denied an important cancer drug she requested and instead was offered a drug for assisted suicide. She eventually got the cancer drug she needed, donated by the evil Pharmaceutical companies, not the state. Oregon's bill didn't include an assisted suicide provision when it was passed either.
Herb Kohl misleads the reader with some of the noted objections. For example, he says "none of the proposals being considered by Congress would make private health insurance illegal." No one that I've heard or read is saying that it would. What opponents are pointing to is that the bill will fine employers who do not provide insurance 8% of total salary expenses.
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, “Employer Costs for Employee Compensation: All Civilian Workers,” September 2007, In 2006, U.S. employers spent 9.9% of payroll on health insurance contributions. An 8% penalty will be a cost effective solution for employers to reduce costs. This will lead many employers to eliminate private insurance for their employees, forcing them into the public option, and putting many private insurers out of business. So, when supporters of the House bill claim that the bill won't eliminate private insurance and you can keep the insurance you have, they are literally correct, but fundamentally dishonest.
The Government can easily undercut private insurance by channeling more tax dollars into the government program. We can argue whether this will happen, but I don't believe I'm "morally depraved" for believing that it will.
I believe that Government IS the problem and IS the reason why health care is so expensive. For example, there are 1,300 insurance companies in the U.S. that provide health insurance. I am only allowed to buy insurance from those companies that are licensed in California, which requires them to provide ridiculous coverage for acupuncture and trans-gender therapy, among other things. By opening up interstate commerce of insurance plans, we could significantly increase competition and lower costs. This is a Government restriction, not an insurance company restriction.
Why is my employer responsible for shopping for my insurance? Because of Government mandated employer provided health insurance. I changed jobs last year, but wasn't allowed to keep my insurance because it's not an option on my current employer's plan. If I bought the insurance I was happy with, my employer would be prohibited from contributing to it, refunding me their contribution amount, AND the Government wouldn't let me deduct the expenses from my income for taxes. Another Government restriction that's unnecessary, increases the cost and limits choice and availability.
What we need is personalized insurance, not nationalized insurance. Consumer choice, not only in the selection of insurance, but in the spending of insurance money on our own health care will lower costs, increase availability, and improve quality as it does in all areas where capitalism is allowed to work. Some Government regulation, not ownership, of the insurance industry and provisions for emergency care and vouchers for lower income people to purchase their own insurance is change I can believe in.
So, Bill. I'm passionate about this issue but not "depraved." What about you? You initiated this conversation. Are you interested in a discussion, or are you only interested in a one-sided debate where opposing opinions are suppressed? Here's your intellectual honesty test for today. If you're firm in your convictions then you should have no problem forwarding this rebuttal to the same distribution as your original e-mail. If you're unwilling to do this, then I can only conclude that you're an ideologue with no interest in debate, only propaganda. If the latter is the case, please unsubscribe me from further propaganda.
PS. I imagine you will forward my "fishy misinformation" to the White House Office of black-balled citizens and I'll probably end up on a domestic terrorist watch-list for expressing an opinion different from the Messiah. In that case, President Obama: I would like you to read the Privacy Act of 1974, which was passed after the Nixon administration used federal agencies to illegally investigate individuals for political purposes. Enacted after Richard Nixon's resignation in the Watergate scandal, the statute generally prohibits any federal agency from maintaining records on individuals exercising their right to free speech.